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Worst part is that we do not even know if we hit the point of no return :(
It’s because of propaganda. That phrase, and (in the US) the idea that “we are the greatest country in the world” is planted very deep in our minds. That means that no matter how bad things get here, we are assured that nothing better is possible.
And we literally had Democratic Socialism under FDR in the 30’s and 40’s that fixed many of the problems of capitalism, until Reagan broke it all down in the 80s
Boomers experience was literally growing up in the solution, yet they fucked it up for everyone.
That wasn’t democratic socialism, it was social democracy. Seems like a small difference but the impact is huge. Democratic socialism eschews capitalism entirely while social democracy preserves capitalism with heavy regulation. Boomers didn’t grow up in the solution, they grew up with the symptoms of the disease being treated, but it was no cure. Because the underlying causes of inequality were not addressed they eventually overcame and reversed the regulations designed to keep them in check. We should learn from the mistake and go beyond half measures next time.
I mean the same thing.
The main benefit of capitalism is the free market that it establishes. But it requires regulation to prevent control being centralizes by private oligarchs.
Communism has the same problem of central control of capital and markets, but in their case, its state connected oligarchs.
If we could have the free market without the incentives to centralize wealth and control, I would be very interested.
The main benefit of capitalism is the free market that it establishes. But it requires regulation to prevent control being centralizes by private oligarchs.
The “free market” and regulations are mutually exclusive. You can’t have both, unless you consider a “free market” to exist on a spectrum between no regulations and maximum regulations and draw an arbitrary line between free and not free.
Communism has the same problem of central control of capital and markets, but in their case, its state connected oligarchs.
This is an issue with vanguardist marxism-leninism, not necessarily communism. I understand that this is the ideological strain of communism that people - especially Americans - are most familiar with for historical reasons, but there are many other strains that oppose centralized command and control economies, preferring more federal and democratic or consensus-based systems. In fact, the Bolsheviks initially rallied around the slogan “all power to the soviets.” Soviets are workers’ councils - the primary decision-making bodies and drivers of the Russian revolution - and they operated independently, freely associating with one another by choice. It was only after the revolution succeeded in siezing the state that the soviets were dissolved and replaced with “one big soviet” which was loyal to Lenin. It was briefly still somewhat decentralized and democratic (at least relative to what came before) until Stalin came to power and rapidly centralized the economic and political structure of the soviet union.
If we could have the free market without the incentives to centralize wealth and control, I would be very interested.
What exactly do you mean by “free market?” If we go by the conventional definition of a free market (capitalism without any regulations or checks of any kind) then what you’re asking for here is fundamentally impossible. The economic system of capitalism is one that creates the incentives to centralize wealth and control by allowing - and then enforcing - private ownership of the means of production.
communism is stateless and classless and moneyless
In theory, in practice, it was a tool for state control over ownership.
Did we?
How do you think we ended up with a weekend, overtime and the right for woman to vote?
The greatest generation striked, fought and died against the capitalist billionaire oligarchs and monarchs to get it.
…women got the right to vote in Australia over 20 years before my GG grandma was born…
You’re assuming everyone here is American to the point of using an acronym like FDR. I know who you’re talking about but still
edit: the person who you’re responding to is Australian based on their instance and I’m Canadian
Valid point, thank you.
With many things, most of the western world tends to track the trends that the US is doing. (Something I hope Trump cures people from)
I am South African myself, so I should be clear in my language.
Did we?
The person they’re responding to should choose their words more carefully, then.
I like the pre-internet days when everyone just blamed their dad, not all dads.
If democratic socialism had fixed the problems with capitalism, then capitalism wouldn’t have won.
Better? Sure. The solution? Sadly it wasn’t.
It only started breaking down when people stopped maintaining it. People grew complacent, but not the 1% they were busy, motivated and ruthless.
Nothing in human society lasts, unless you maintain it. Even capitalism.
What do you think might be a solution to the maintenance problem?
Whoever says this has not played a fallout game (or watched the show). At some point the only way for evil companies to continue to chase infinite growth is to create the situations that make them rich. This works out terribly when it applies to weapons, bunkers, pharmaceuticals, even the news is incentivised to see the world burn.
Capitalism is the best system we’ve got because capitalism killed every other system, not due to any virtue on capitalism’s part.
I’d be down to try just about anything else at this point.
Killing other systems is a form of “virtue” though, because as idealistic as anyone wants to be, whatever system we make will exist in a competitive ecosystem. Want to make a functional communism? Well, it has to be able to survive assaults from capitalism. A system cannot just be “moral” or “good”, it also has to be strong or ruthless enough to protect it’s existence from the many forces which will seek to destroy it.
Yes, capitalism has been forced on us at gunpoint, literally (as in Graeber and Wengrow, The Dawn of Everything)
This serial killer is the best doctor weve got, because hes wearing an eye necklace of every other hospital employee.
At first blush that sounds insane, but reality these days is giving The Onion a run for its money.
He may not have ever been to medical school (except during the 05 massacres) but he can pass for a nearly competent orthopedjc surgeon!
It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism
Maybe if you don’t know what capitalism is. A lot of people seem to confuse capitalism with markets. It’s had to imagine a world without markets, but capitalism is just an ownership system. It’s easy to imagine a world made up of cooperatives. It’s basically the same world we already have but everyone gets paid more and there are no shareholders.
There’s nothing stopping people from working for or with cooperatives or not working for or with corporations. It’s just that most people can’t be bothered to care. If everyone stopped buying from corporations, corporations would die pretty quick. If everyone bought from cooperatives, they’d be a lot more stable. We’re only picking winners and losers via government contracts. The res of the economy is a free for all.
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What I said is a quote. I thought it’s known enough to be recognized but apprehendly not. Sorry. Mark Fisher wrote a book about it: Capitalist Realism
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It’s difficult to imagine an alternative when every politician since Thatcher and Regan repeat some form of “there is no alternative” and media says the same in different ways.
All the more important to talk about alternatives, so thanks for doing so. That’s what I love about authors like Graeber and Wengrow. It’s not that I want to live in every society explored in The Dawn Of Everything but it’s great to read about them.
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You’re not wrong, which makes me think you’re probably fantastic at imagining the end of the world too.
Shows a real lack of imagination.
On purpose, yes. Their way of life requires it.
Capitalism is the best system at eliminating other systems before they eliminate it.
Time for some more Chamelling !
But this is not necessarily capitalism. This is Trump not wanting to go to prison. I know the sentiment in Lemmy is super anti capitalist and with good reason, but let’s not fool ourselves. There’s a literal Pedophile in Charge trying to flood the zone.
Trump didn’t cause climate change mate.
It’s not clear what the OP is talking about. It could be the nukes, but it could also be the return to fossil fuels and withdrawal from the Paris Agreement by Trump, “mate”.
Well for starters not everything in the world relates to Trump, so it seems unlikely that it would be directly and only about Trump and not the broader implications of capitalism’s man-made extinction event we are currently in via climate change.
But sure, Trump.
It was literally the latest news not even a week ago, what are you on about. This whole year has been about the US shitting on everything. Tf are you on about?
This tweet is from 2019 for a start.
And yet you’re posting it in 2026? The fuck is that about?
Because capitalism is still fucking killing us and fucknuts are still arguing it’s a good system.
How is this so hard to understand?
Trump is a symptom of a much broader issue, he is not the cause.
He did not create racism or white supremacy but he’s been able to take advantage of both while increasing hardships on the white populace who voted for him.
He did not create the housing crisis. That’s been an ongoing issue for decades, a problem that has gotten worse post-2008 and left unaddressed by two Democratic presidents.
He did not create the institutionalized ponzi scheme that is the stock market but he’s taken advantage of it to maximum benefit, likewise many federal level legislators.
He did not invent judicial or government corruption but has used both to his advantage.
He did not create ICE but he’s using them to bolster hin image to his foolish followers.
He did not create the military industrial complex or the western fossil fuel industry that uses them to do their bidding.
He’s a problem but he’s far from being THE problem.
