You must log in or register to comment.
The left wants to squeeze the rich until money comes out. Centrist republicans don’t.
That’s why those controlling the Democratic party will not save us. The left needs to take it from them.
And you Americans do this by ignoring primaries, by not volunteering for your leftists candidates, not donating or spreading the word and knocking doors. Instead you guys sit on your ass and bitch about the candidate that was picked without any of your input. You say “get rid of the old white man” and when you get an educated black woman you go “eeew not that, we meant the other ancient white guy Bernie”
You’re all a ball of contradictions and nobody is left enough or good enough to be an ally. You demand democrats stand up to republicans but the moment one does you bitch and bury them and call them fake leftists, no wonder they rather just sit out and let you guys reap what you sowed
The American left is just as toxic and deranged as the American right just in the opposite way. It’s no surprise since you all came from the same deranged country.
Again im pointing out the AMERICAN left, leftists around the world think you guys are a bunch of babies
Fascism it is I guess. I wish things could be different, but the liberals didn’t want to compromise. Oh well.
I can’t tell which group you’re calling the liberals who don’t compromise. Is it the left who won’t vote the Republicans out or is it the DNC?
Big money lefties and those that support the genocide Israel is committing.
Is that really left and or liberal if it is neither progressive nor respects human rights? If anything Israel genocide is a conservative centrist policy.
If anything Israel genocide is a conservative centrist policy.
And for some reason, it wasn’t a winning issue with a party full of leftists and liberals. But conservatives like you loved it so much you would rather lose to trump that suggest that it stop.
Nobody who cared about a single Palestinian life should ever have considered allowing Trump to win for even a single moment. Nobody who protested the dems in the general actually cared about Palestine unless there was a serious and major disinformation campaign pressuring them to do so.
This nation’s official stance went from “end the war and bring peace to the middle east” to Pete Hegest as Secretary of War declaring “death or exodus” for every Palestinian.
Your argument can’t see past your own hand. By endorsing a party continually getting worse every cycle, the party is guaranteeing the republicans would win, making fighting for democrats a waste of time and energy, they refuse to do what is needed to win, and stop the fascist political machine.
We knew they couldn’t win as their only selling point being better than the other guy, while getting worse every cycle. Not just on foreign policy, on selling us out to the plutocracy, not changing anything back, that they see themselves as good cop to R bad cop is inescapable, apparently thinking election theft projections are all performative. In denial that Republicans aren’t playing bad cop, but Hitler.
On foreign policy specifically, Biden kicked off that round by endorsing veritable blood libel, claiming to have seen the evidence of 40 beheaded babies by Hamas, a patently false allegation, and never corrected himself. All for a country working to sabotage him, with blackmail on half of our politicians and businessman.
There is, and never was, any way out from the abyss of fascism, with these democrats running the opposition. The only path is getting new leadership.
The only thing that has gotten worse every cycle is livelihood in the USA because the DNC have been left out of power for over 13 years.
The DNC keep moving left but the campaigns against them by foreign powers and billionaires gets stronger every day.
It’s accurate for sure.
Democrats made a failed attempt to acquire a potentially valuable resource to their cause, Americans who vote consistently.
People who don’t vote or donate to their party are literally worthless in their eyes.
I vote consistently because I don’t want fascism running the government. They take consistent voters for granted. They should court the disenfranchised with progressive policies but that runs counter to their donor handlers’ goals so they pander to the right more and more instead.
Then they will lose funding and the average voter will vote republican because ads work when you are as misinformed as the average voter.
I love how there’s always a bullshit justification for moving to the right like centrists want.
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US. So there is logic here.
Also, vote switchers count for double. So there would actually need to be twice as many possible voters on the left for it to be as appealing as the right.
As always the proper solution is to alter the conditions that incentivize this behavior.
Winning a lot of elections that way?
Yeah Mamdani just won and is a perfect example of a partial solution to what I’m talking about. But since you didn’t ask about my solutions that probably won’t make sense. I’m happy to explain if you actually want to discuss.
But don’t let me rain on your hate parade.
NYC isn’t the federal government.
There are not more republicans. What there are are checked out non voters and a “left” that had so much splintered infighting no one really knows what the left is.
There is also a swath of single issue voters who vote on guns. They actually would flip in a heartbeat with a liberal gun owner platform. It’s not a new phenomenon.
You’re just arguing semantics. If people consistently vote republican then they are republicans right now. That they might switch for the right candidate isn’t really relevant.
But yeah gun stuff is an example of a position someone could use to appeal to fence sitters. It will absolutely piss off a portion of the Democratic base though.
No matter how many positions you abandon or how many minorities you betray, republicans will vote for republicans.
I think Harris’s failure should be the clue that this isn’t right. You’re not going to win by courting conservatives
How can it be wrong? Do you think there are more leftists than republicans? Or do you deny the math advantage of switchers vs those who might stay home?
There are multiple reasons candidates fail. Harris failed largely because voters didn’t know her and they saw her as a stand in for Biden, who they were angry with. Also she had sort of a flailing campaign strategy. And being a black woman never helps in the US.
I’m not arguing democrats or leftists should moderate their positions. My politics are probably not too different from yours. But the first step to solving the problem is understanding it. And this theory that there are 100 million sleeping American communists waiting to be unleashed doesn’t have any evidence behind it. So just running someone further left is not a cheat code for winning elections. There is a lot more to beating fascism than that.
How can it be wrong?
You’re chasing people who hate you and abandoning voters to do it. Stop.
I’m not arguing democrats or leftists should moderate their positions.
But there’s a lot moooooooore fascists! We have to be just like them to win! That always works!!!
Yet time and time again, polling shows that Americans prefer leftist policies when presented with them independently of party affiliation. As well as younger generations trending further left.
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation. They’re told “those scary communists have good policies but they want to destroy America!” And most people believe that.
So, wait, if the policies are popular, but the party affiliation isn’t, how the fuck is the go-to strategy to keep the party but give up on the policies instead of the other way around?
Because team sports. And propaganda
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US.
I get that you don’t want to hear this because it gets in the way of moving to the right, but republicans won’t vote for republican lite when they have full fat fascist.
All you’re doing is capitulating for no reason. Well, except that you want to.
I wish the Democrats had the balls to use that messaging. Instead, it’s us leftists trying to convince the radical centrists like Cassandra of Troy.
Not so much anymore. It’s pretty clear this is what they want.
The moment they capitulated and caved on the shutdown, all to save themselves and their rich friend’s the horror of losing money over the holidays or being unable to fly to some exotic place on the same runways they refuse to pay taxes to fund, the Democrats proved what everyone already knew. They’re controlled opposition. They’ll fight with everything they have to prevent a progressive candidate from getting anywhere near the system while allowing fascism to kick down the door with lip-service opposition.
Before Biden, the performance was believable, or at least palatable. After allowing tRump to skirt consequences for January 6, and even allowing him to be on the ballot at all, it was clear there was no intention of meaningful opposition or change. Until and unless we can remove these legislative dinosaurs and get progressives or working people into positions of power, no change will happen. I fear that with the wealth inequalities and immense power wielded by a few, it may have become too late to contain this beast. Nothing can save this system.
If we could get our own candidates we could take half of the non partisan right voters. Most of them just vote to reject the democrats not endorse the republicans, and are low information. A true populist would take their loyalties, especially now with the America First crowd rejected and scorned by the party. It’s supposed champion being led around by the party starting a dozen wars at a time.
I completely agree. Zohran is a great example - everyone loves him, even Trump. That’s what a principled and charismatic leftist politician looks like. I wish we had more people like Zohran coming into leadership positions in the Democratic party.
Unfortunately, some people are using bad strategies to try and get more Zohrans. Instead of showing up before the primaries and promoting leftist politicians in competition with moderates, they show up after the primaries and attack moderate politicians in competition with fascists. The former is how you get leftists in power. The latter is how you get fascists in power. The two look the same to those who are… less politically adept. But in truth, they have very different effects.
At the same time, republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024. Influencing the sheep, and wasting and frustrating the left, to help keep a candidate they can beat to run against them. The oligarchy obviously wanting also to keep their license from being revoked, fearing mild reform more than putting an absolute leader in charge, arrogantly thinking they can control the monster they’ve reared on the right.
You are going around blaming those that didn’t pretend the democrats were doing a good job; and were going to win; and that they would do what is needed after they won, rather than those that saddled us with the doomed to fail, constitutionally unwilling to do what is needed candidate. By the time they get their hack “moderate” coronated, we already lost. There was no situation whereby the democrats would continually win elections selling out more every term and spiting their left base indefinitely while being unpopular and not reforming and not enforcing the law against republicans openly working to fix elections.
Biden didn’t even protect the voting officials from death threats. There was zero chance him or his hand picked replacement were going to stop fascists. Once Kamala got in, it was over. I knew it, you should’ve known it. Which is not saying how I did or didn’t vote so don’t give me the typical emotional accusations without evidence of voting to force the person on the defensive. The question is that the republic is doomed the moment we get these democrats as candidates.
I recently played a very fun game of Diplomacy, which is an old board game about international politics. I was playing as Italy, and it was in My interest to keep both Turkey and Russia as weak as possible while I repelled a French invasion, so that once France was no longer a threat, I could conquer both. So what I did is, I formed alliances with both Turkey and Russia, who were new players, and rather than commit troops to aid either side, I gave them both advice on how to outmaneuver the other. If either of them looked about to win, I would give the other one better advice. It worked great, and the Sultan of Turkey was shocked at My betrayal, since I’d helped him so much. He didn’t realise I was playing both sides.
republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024
I hadn’t heard that before, but I’m willing to believe it. I also believe that right wing botfarms are promoting fringe left wing movements that attack the Democrats, like Jill Stein’s Greens. I think they’re playing both sides, helping amplify the most stalemate-y versions of both our arguments, to keep the American Left opposed to the Democrats.
I’m a bit smarter and more experienced than the Turkish Sultan in My diplomacy game. I know who the biggest threat is. The Republicans in the real world are the Italy of My game. The biggest threat. I, as an anarcho-communist, are willing to stand by the Democrats, help them beat Trump, and stab them in the back right afterwards with a communist revolution. But yelling from the rooftops about how much I hate them, while Trump is still in power, is not part of that plan. My plan involves subtlety.
I was saying that the right aligned influence operations pretend to be democrats and help get the moderates the nominations because they can beat them to be clear your quote makes it sound like I said the opposite.
My point though, by the time it gets to the general election, it’s already over. There is zero percent chance of stopping the fascists with them running the opposition. Moreover people that stick their necks out for democracy get them chopped off even if the democrats win an election in spite of themselves, as Biden squeaked out a win against a president with 40 percent approval hated more than any man in the country by half the population.
As such, it’s not the fault of those that didn’t vote democratic, it would change nothing, fascists were going to win the moment they got establishment candidates in there.
Beyond that, whose fault is it people voted third party? Those establishment figures do nothing but spite the left. People made clear they won’t vote for democrats if they get continually worse, if they continue to betray issues we care about, and they openly spite us at every turn. We knew they wouldn’t get those votes if they continued to be sold out hacks, and they did it anyway, knowing what the republicans were, and what the electorate was.
As such, it’s wrong-headed to blame voters. Keeping a doomed to fail strategy despite knowing it can’t win negates any criticism they have of voters for not betraying their own interests and supporting candidates owned by the rich that openly spite them worse every cycle. They made clear they won’t support them if they do x or don’t do y, and they did x and didn’t do y. If they got the support anyway, they would continue to get worse, already further right, further sold out to big money, than George HW Bush let alone Nixon. Biden really was giving George W Bush a run for his money.
It is wrongheaded to blame voters, and belies being susceptible to the buck passing arguments the establishment uses to stay in power to fail again. Don’t fall for it.
whose fault is it people voted third party?
I don’t think that’s a productive way to think about things. I mean, I could say “It’s the billionaire’s fault capitalism is destroying our climate” and just go home, safe in the knowledge I didn’t start the fire… but that doesn’t actually help anyone. So I don’t deal in blame.
Blame is Gefühlspolitik - politics based on emotion. I love Diplomacy because it teaches Realpolitik - politics based on what the optimal move is to make in the current situation.
In My current situation, I’m not talking to Joe Biden. I can’t change Joe’s mind. I’m talking to you. I can maybe change your mind, if I’m smart enough. I can convince you to adapt your strategy to the situation you find yourself in, to try and buy a few more years before ICE comes for My family. That’s My goal. A few more years for the revolution to grow, a few more years for people to escape.
Do you want a few more years? And given the current circumstances of the situation, what does your logic and cunning tell you is the best way to get them?
On the contrary, without laying blame the same people that failed stay in power to do it again.
You are basically saying don’t look backward but forward. But not forward but forever twirling, twirling twirling!
We need a clear eyed view of the situation, and to employ reason, and reason decrees without qualification that the establishment is doomed to fail, that they aren’t popular, not trying to be popular, and so unable to reliably win at all. That if they do get in will not fix, will not restore, will not enforce the laws against the connected, will continue to allow all captured government agencies to remain so, continue to allow corporations to cheat us, etc.
Can’t win, won’t be popular, not trying, they quash popular reformists that is their raison de etre. They refuse to address root causes of problems, ie the rich stealing our lunch.
PugJesus in a nutshell
Crazy how Lemmy is still small enough to have famous/infamous commenters. I wonder if I have a rep? I feel like I comment a lot but probably nothing compared to them
Is that shithead still around? I thought he might have died
The dude’s the most well respected anti-Tankie anarchist on the platform, I don’t expect him to go away any time soon.
You call everyone you don’t like a tankie.
I call people Tankies when they promote the interests of Russian and Chinese militaristic dictatorship and expansion. They’re here on the Fediverse in large numbers because it’s a small part of their many well funded psyops such as Chinese run TikTok and operations on FaceBook and YouTube going back over well over a decade.
I admit I may have declared a couple of false positives, but probably less times than I hit the nail on the head.
I call people Tankies when
When they are to your left about anything at all.
None of the people I call tankies are left. All tankies are conservatives.
All tankies are conservatives.
Yes, yes. Everyone to your left is all the way to your right. But not like the actual right. Wouldn’t want to compromise with them.
Removed by mod
